This is an editorial. It is pure, unfiltered opinion. Please understand this before continuing.
I got a little disillusioned with Etsy this week when I discovered that apparently their claim of being “Your place to buy & sell all things handmade” isn’t entirely true. Particularly the “all” part as a large percentage of the items on Etsy are not handmade in the least but rather your garden variety used items.
For example, did they hand-stitch this lot of He-Man action figures?
What pottery class student created this detailed Knight Rider Board game?
I guess I experienced some pretty hard disappointment when I realized that not everything on Etsy was homemade, particularly when they claim that is the whole point of the site. I am happy to pay extra to support an independent artist for an original creation, but when I find out that the necklace I was admiring in your store is actually not handmade at all but instead was mass produced factory costume jewelry from 20 years ago, the credibility of everything on the entire site takes a hit. Especially since not every seller is very upfront about this.
Apparently, there is a loop-hole in their site terms that states that you can sell vintage items of over 20 years old. People are taking advantage of this to sell items of any age, even ones with no relation to Etsy whatsoever. I can understand selling vintage jewelry for others to use for spare parts. But I am having a hard time applying that logic to a lot of what is up there (toasters? “vintage” cell phone cases?)
If Etsy’s fees are cheaper or you prefer the experience to eBay or Amazon, then I cannot fault you as a seller for taking your vintage toys, movie posters, video games, etc to Etsy and taking advantage of this loop-hole. I am all for following the profit and the best deal. But I cannot help but fault the marketplace for misrepresenting itself and for letting people who sell “vintage” items dilute the marketplace for the people who are legitimately selling homemade items.
I’m sure people will disagree, but to me, this feels very underhanded. To call yourself the place for “all things handmade” and not have all your things handmade is dishonest, in my opinion. As a buyer, I feel a little bit distrustful now whenever I see an item I like because I can’t be sure that its actually handmade which seems counterproductive to the point of the site. The only thing that is there to help you is if the item is tagged vintage but this is shaky ground because a lot of honestly handmade items are tagged vintage as well because they have a vintage look or vintage parts.
Understand that I am not angry at the Etsy sellers. I am angry FOR them. I feel like this vintage stuff casts an unwanted aspersion on the real handmade merchandise. It just feels, to me, that it has no business being in a marketplace of artists and is just a ploy by Etsy to catch the leftover eBay crowd.
I have to pose these questions to the Etsy using community because I honestly have no idea. I have never sold on Etsy (silly me, I assumed I needed to have something handmade!) so I’m not well versed on its history.
- Was it always like this? Did it start out as a marketplace only for the handmade and then, in an effort to compete with eBay et al, they let the other items in? Or has it always been this way? (ie, a marketplace for everything but with an emphasis on handmade)
- To what extend does Etsy enforce the rules?
- There are a lot of copyrighted images on items on Etsy, do they do anything about those or is it informal?
- Do they seem to be moving to more of a free-for-all eBay-like format and getting away from the handmade?
I’m not trying to upset anyone with this post, but I would like to know what other people think, especially people who have bought and sold on Etsy before. To me, I just feel like someone just told me the doughnut I was eating is made of clay so I am a little thrown off balance.
Does the fact that the marketplace for everything handmade sell so much non-handmade things bother you?
Were you even aware this was the case?
Am I just over analyzing this?
Note: I have a friend of mine who is an Etsy seller who will be guest blogging within the next few weeks all about Etsy. Please understand that my opinions are not hers in anyway. I was just doing so shopping on Etsy today, discovered this and was upset enough to write a blog post about it. Understand that I have nothing against Etsy sellers and love a lot of great stuff on that site. I just wanted to get a feel for what people thought about this.
If you all tell me this is fine, normal and doesn’t bother you at all, heck I will even do a post on how to sell your vintage toys, toasters, cell phones, etc on Etsy. I just wanted to know what the general perception of this is.
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I sell vintage on Etsy, and I am a member of the Etsy Vintage Street Team. I think I can help clear up a few of your questions:
Was it always like this? – as I understand it, yes, vintage has been allowed since the beginning, as have commercial supplies, as long as they are tagged appropriately.
To what extent does Etsy enforce the rules? – not as well as it should. You can report or flag an offending item or seller, sometimes action is taken but sometimes it isn’t.
Do they seem to be moving to more of a free-for-all eBay-like format and getting away from the handmade?
They recently changed the way the search function works, so if you want to see vintage or supplies you have to click the drop down menu in the search box, otherwise, your search is restricted to only handmade items, which are the default.
Of course if people don’t tag correctly then it doesn’t matter, which I think is what you were running into in your searches.
There has been talk that in the future Etsy will actually divide into three separate sections – so supplies and vintage will each have their own sites basically.
I think a lot of the fault lies with the way Etsy markets itself – the handmade tagline and their handmade only advertising gives a false impression of what is really available on the site.
Vintage sellers do what we can to get the word out that there is vintage on Etsy, because it is a large market there, and there are hundreds of very good and serious vintage sellers that put tons of work into their shops and into promoting Etsy.
I think Etsy realized even at the beginning that the three areas compliment each other, that the people who are interested in handmade or who sell handmade would likely be interested in vintage and supply items. But they have chosen to kind of push the non-handmade items to the side, so even though we pay the same fees, we don’t get the attention that handmade gets.
If Etsy’s fees weren’t so low it might not be worth the extra work it takes to promote my vintage shops and explain to people (like you, hehe) that vintage is allowed on the site and here is how you find it, etc. But, their fees ARE low, so I do the extra work.
Plus I really like the community there! The Etsy Vintage Street Team I am a member of is a great group of sellers and it is so nice to be able to work with people who are doing what I do…
http://etsyvintage.blogspot.com/
http://etsyvintagedirectory.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/616056@N25/
I sell vintage on Etsy, and I am a member of the Etsy Vintage Street Team. I think I can help clear up a few of your questions:
Was it always like this? – as I understand it, yes, vintage has been allowed since the beginning, as have commercial supplies, as long as they are tagged appropriately.
To what extent does Etsy enforce the rules? – not as well as it should. You can report or flag an offending item or seller, sometimes action is taken but sometimes it isn’t.
Do they seem to be moving to more of a free-for-all eBay-like format and getting away from the handmade?
They recently changed the way the search function works, so if you want to see vintage or supplies you have to click the drop down menu in the search box, otherwise, your search is restricted to only handmade items, which are the default.
Of course if people don’t tag correctly then it doesn’t matter, which I think is what you were running into in your searches.
There has been talk that in the future Etsy will actually divide into three separate sections – so supplies and vintage will each have their own sites basically.
I think a lot of the fault lies with the way Etsy markets itself – the handmade tagline and their handmade only advertising gives a false impression of what is really available on the site.
Vintage sellers do what we can to get the word out that there is vintage on Etsy, because it is a large market there, and there are hundreds of very good and serious vintage sellers that put tons of work into their shops and into promoting Etsy.
I think Etsy realized even at the beginning that the three areas compliment each other, that the people who are interested in handmade or who sell handmade would likely be interested in vintage and supply items. But they have chosen to kind of push the non-handmade items to the side, so even though we pay the same fees, we don’t get the attention that handmade gets.
If Etsy’s fees weren’t so low it might not be worth the extra work it takes to promote my vintage shops and explain to people (like you, hehe) that vintage is allowed on the site and here is how you find it, etc. But, their fees ARE low, so I do the extra work.
Plus I really like the community there! The Etsy Vintage Street Team I am a member of is a great group of sellers and it is so nice to be able to work with people who are doing what I do…
http://etsyvintage.blogspot.com/
http://etsyvintagedirectory.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/616056@N25/
Mitzi,
Thank you, first off, for commenting. You hit on exactly what I wanted to say but I was afraid to not being an Etsy seller to make that assumption.
I see nothing wrong with the selling of supplies (thread, paint, etc) but you seem to refer to supplies and vintage items interchangeably. When I first saw that vintage items were for sale, that was my initial thought, that vintage items were only meant to be used as supplies for future handmade projects. This was actually the crux of what got me upset because people are clearly taking advantage of this rule to sell collectibles or vintage items for any reason.
If you are selling a mint in box vintage board game, clearly you are selling it for the collectibles market and not as supplies. It’s very different if you are selling vintage materials as supplies or on their own merit. My entire objection was that the intent, as you say, seems to be that they were to be sold as supplies but it has turned into a collectibles market.
I do appreciate whatever changes they are making to the search so that these items do not show up, but I cannot help but feel like this pre-made stuff has no place on my Etsy! It gives the sellers who are doing Etsy “right” (selling handmade items) a strange association.
I don’t mind if they want to be a vintage marketplace, but I mind that they haven’t made that clear.
I take it that you don’t feel the same way about it as you seem to view the vintage items as supplies or Etsy as just an eBay alternative so I guess I just need to forget about it. But when I look at it from an artist’s perspective I guess I just cannot understand how they wouldn’t be annoyed! 🙂
But if they are talking about splitting up the site into vintage and handmade, then I guess it is going in a good direction and I will shut up about it. I was just a little unpleasantly surprised to discover that, at the moment, they aren’t very well divided.
Mitzi,
Thank you, first off, for commenting. You hit on exactly what I wanted to say but I was afraid to not being an Etsy seller to make that assumption.
I see nothing wrong with the selling of supplies (thread, paint, etc) but you seem to refer to supplies and vintage items interchangeably. When I first saw that vintage items were for sale, that was my initial thought, that vintage items were only meant to be used as supplies for future handmade projects. This was actually the crux of what got me upset because people are clearly taking advantage of this rule to sell collectibles or vintage items for any reason.
If you are selling a mint in box vintage board game, clearly you are selling it for the collectibles market and not as supplies. It’s very different if you are selling vintage materials as supplies or on their own merit. My entire objection was that the intent, as you say, seems to be that they were to be sold as supplies but it has turned into a collectibles market.
I do appreciate whatever changes they are making to the search so that these items do not show up, but I cannot help but feel like this pre-made stuff has no place on my Etsy! It gives the sellers who are doing Etsy “right” (selling handmade items) a strange association.
I don’t mind if they want to be a vintage marketplace, but I mind that they haven’t made that clear.
I take it that you don’t feel the same way about it as you seem to view the vintage items as supplies or Etsy as just an eBay alternative so I guess I just need to forget about it. But when I look at it from an artist’s perspective I guess I just cannot understand how they wouldn’t be annoyed! 🙂
But if they are talking about splitting up the site into vintage and handmade, then I guess it is going in a good direction and I will shut up about it. I was just a little unpleasantly surprised to discover that, at the moment, they aren’t very well divided.
To stay along in the flow of discussion here, I will clarify what I assume that Mitzi’s intent was when she paired vintage and supplies together…meaning not that vintage and supplies are viewed as one and the same and that vintage was meant to be only sold as a supply on Etsy, but simply that vintage and supplies are both of the non-handmade category.
Yes, Etsy always had a vintage category. Those who make and buy handmade items also tend to be those who are into the reuse, recycle and repurpose lifestyle which vintage is a part. Many of those who sell handmade have other shops on Etsy that sell vintage, the two just seem to go hand in hand.
You are absolutely right that Etsy does not make clear on their front page that they embrace and support their vintage sellers (I am one and also part of the Etsy Vintage Team) and vintage has to work very hard to promote their wares at a place which charges all sellers the same fees but does not give all sellers equal exposure.
Vintage on Etsy is rarely, if ever, mentioned in any form of media and we all know how their tagline reads…so I guess your reaction is to be expected.
Fortunately, despite all we vintage sellers have to do to promote ourselves, it has been said that the vintage and supplies (again, two distinct and separate categories) sellers make up the bulk of the sales on Etsy. There are even those unscrupulous types who use that little tidbit to their advantage and mistag their non-vintage items as vintage, presumably in hopes of getting more hits.
To stay along in the flow of discussion here, I will clarify what I assume that Mitzi’s intent was when she paired vintage and supplies together…meaning not that vintage and supplies are viewed as one and the same and that vintage was meant to be only sold as a supply on Etsy, but simply that vintage and supplies are both of the non-handmade category.
Yes, Etsy always had a vintage category. Those who make and buy handmade items also tend to be those who are into the reuse, recycle and repurpose lifestyle which vintage is a part. Many of those who sell handmade have other shops on Etsy that sell vintage, the two just seem to go hand in hand.
You are absolutely right that Etsy does not make clear on their front page that they embrace and support their vintage sellers (I am one and also part of the Etsy Vintage Team) and vintage has to work very hard to promote their wares at a place which charges all sellers the same fees but does not give all sellers equal exposure.
Vintage on Etsy is rarely, if ever, mentioned in any form of media and we all know how their tagline reads…so I guess your reaction is to be expected.
Fortunately, despite all we vintage sellers have to do to promote ourselves, it has been said that the vintage and supplies (again, two distinct and separate categories) sellers make up the bulk of the sales on Etsy. There are even those unscrupulous types who use that little tidbit to their advantage and mistag their non-vintage items as vintage, presumably in hopes of getting more hits.
In reference the the copyrighted images issue… in reading through the forums on etsy, it becomes very apparent that a large number of the handmade sellers there are very uninformed about copyright laws and even about how to properly run a business. Many of them are used to the informal craft show circuit and simply don’t realize what the rules are or assume it doesn’t apply to them because they’re small potatoes. This applies to proper tax-paying, as well. Even on eBay, people tend to be a little more informed about such things.
I think Kelly has it right about the vintage stuff. There’s a lot of focus on green/eco-friendly/recycling on the site, so vintage really does fit in well. As with any venue, though, there are some who abuse it. Do a forum search for “resellers” and you’ll see lots of complaining about people who post non-handmade non-vintage non-supplies on the site. It can be hard to police such things, since it takes lots of time and man-hours, so there are some who slip through.
Note, I have bought but not yet sold on etsy.
In reference the the copyrighted images issue… in reading through the forums on etsy, it becomes very apparent that a large number of the handmade sellers there are very uninformed about copyright laws and even about how to properly run a business. Many of them are used to the informal craft show circuit and simply don’t realize what the rules are or assume it doesn’t apply to them because they’re small potatoes. This applies to proper tax-paying, as well. Even on eBay, people tend to be a little more informed about such things.
I think Kelly has it right about the vintage stuff. There’s a lot of focus on green/eco-friendly/recycling on the site, so vintage really does fit in well. As with any venue, though, there are some who abuse it. Do a forum search for “resellers” and you’ll see lots of complaining about people who post non-handmade non-vintage non-supplies on the site. It can be hard to police such things, since it takes lots of time and man-hours, so there are some who slip through.
Note, I have bought but not yet sold on etsy.
Thanks Kelly for clearing that up, people do sell vintage items that can be used as craft supplies, but supplies and vintage are two separate categories, and the only rule for vintage is the item must be over 20 years old.
So yes, the He-Men and toasters are totally allowed, as long as their first tag is Vintage. There has never been a rule that a vintage item must be able to be used as a craft supply.
Thanks Kelly for clearing that up, people do sell vintage items that can be used as craft supplies, but supplies and vintage are two separate categories, and the only rule for vintage is the item must be over 20 years old.
So yes, the He-Men and toasters are totally allowed, as long as their first tag is Vintage. There has never been a rule that a vintage item must be able to be used as a craft supply.
I appreciate you guys filling me in on this. I really had no idea about this whole world of vintage items on Etsy and I guess it just took me aback.
I will make it all up to you by doing a how-to sell vintage items next week on this site. I do still think that they should separate it out better (vintage vs handmade) but it looks like a good alternative for people selling vintage so i want to make sure I cover it.
Now the copyrighted stuff and stuff that is very clearly newer than 20 years old is a whole other ball of wax! 😉
I appreciate you guys filling me in on this. I really had no idea about this whole world of vintage items on Etsy and I guess it just took me aback.
I will make it all up to you by doing a how-to sell vintage items next week on this site. I do still think that they should separate it out better (vintage vs handmade) but it looks like a good alternative for people selling vintage so i want to make sure I cover it.
Now the copyrighted stuff and stuff that is very clearly newer than 20 years old is a whole other ball of wax! 😉
Hillary, I appreciate your honest reaction to your discovery of vintage items on what you considered a “handmade” site. It’s no wonder you thought that, given the non-promotion of vintage on the Etsy site.
Etsy seems to have ambivalent feelings about their early decision to allow vintage on their site. Still, they’re profiting from vintage sales so I guess they just put up with us.
Most of the vintage sellers I know feel as I do that we actually do complement the handmade items. Some vintage sellers will sell anything that is at least 20 years old, but most of us try to keep in mind the feel of Etsy and list our items accordingly.
There has been much talk on the forums about handmade vs vintage, so you’re not alone in feeling the way you do. I personally don’t plan on quitting Etsy, but I can’t wait until there is a real separation, with vintage having a separate but equal site within Etsy.
Mona
http://deerpathvintage.etsy.com
http://deerpathvintage.blogspot.com
Hillary, I appreciate your honest reaction to your discovery of vintage items on what you considered a “handmade” site. It’s no wonder you thought that, given the non-promotion of vintage on the Etsy site.
Etsy seems to have ambivalent feelings about their early decision to allow vintage on their site. Still, they’re profiting from vintage sales so I guess they just put up with us.
Most of the vintage sellers I know feel as I do that we actually do complement the handmade items. Some vintage sellers will sell anything that is at least 20 years old, but most of us try to keep in mind the feel of Etsy and list our items accordingly.
There has been much talk on the forums about handmade vs vintage, so you’re not alone in feeling the way you do. I personally don’t plan on quitting Etsy, but I can’t wait until there is a real separation, with vintage having a separate but equal site within Etsy.
Mona
http://deerpathvintage.etsy.com
http://deerpathvintage.blogspot.com
Hilary,
I can totally understand your reaction and also
appreciate your comments re vintage on Etsy.
I think most of the questions you brought forth in your
article have been answered however did want to
add my voice that the problem really does lie with Etsy.
As has been stated by several posters above, Etsy
while allowing vintage to be sold, makes no
effort to promote vintage or mention it. Vintage is
like Etsy’s ‘dirty little secret’. This is a shame
because vintage and handmade do complement each
other. I also think if more focus was put on vintage
by Etsy, it would help control some of the dubious
‘vintage’ listings that can be found currently on the site.
Many vintage sellers on Etsy also have handmade
shops selling their artisan wares. The continued
ignoring of vintage by Etsy is frustrating to all.
Sue
Hilary,
I can totally understand your reaction and also
appreciate your comments re vintage on Etsy.
I think most of the questions you brought forth in your
article have been answered however did want to
add my voice that the problem really does lie with Etsy.
As has been stated by several posters above, Etsy
while allowing vintage to be sold, makes no
effort to promote vintage or mention it. Vintage is
like Etsy’s ‘dirty little secret’. This is a shame
because vintage and handmade do complement each
other. I also think if more focus was put on vintage
by Etsy, it would help control some of the dubious
‘vintage’ listings that can be found currently on the site.
Many vintage sellers on Etsy also have handmade
shops selling their artisan wares. The continued
ignoring of vintage by Etsy is frustrating to all.
Sue
Awww…Hey, I am having great success with vintage retro at Bonanzle…Loads of hand made goods, new. Everything but the Ordinary as they say. It is so true. Everyyone owes it to themself to at least peek into the Bonanzle Site. Growing in leaps and bounds each day. http://www.bonanzle.com
Awww…Hey, I am having great success with vintage retro at Bonanzle…Loads of hand made goods, new. Everything but the Ordinary as they say. It is so true. Everyyone owes it to themself to at least peek into the Bonanzle Site. Growing in leaps and bounds each day. http://www.bonanzle.com
tree411, that comment was rather spammy. I am just going to issue a warning this time be please, in the future, if you cannot contribute to the discussion, please do not use this site to promote Bonanzle. Thanks for your understanding!
tree411, that comment was rather spammy. I am just going to issue a warning this time be please, in the future, if you cannot contribute to the discussion, please do not use this site to promote Bonanzle. Thanks for your understanding!