eBay sent out a seller update out earlier today and most of it was “Yes, yes. Fine, fine.” Then I got to this part:
New seller standard: Buyer Protection cases counted along with low DSRs. You’re on the right track!
Opening a case with the eBay or PayPal Buyer Protection program is a clear indication of buyer dissatisfaction, especially when the buyer tries and is unable to resolve an issue directly with the seller. That’s why, starting in September, “item not received” and “item not as described” cases will be considered along with low DSRs to evaluate and reward seller performance.
The “You’re on the right track” bit is because I currently meet this requirement.
Um…. I’ve been selling on eBay for many years now and I have had lots of buyers start “Item not received” or “Item not as described cases”. But here’s the thing, eBay. Of all of those, only five were actually buyers whose item didn’t arrive or wasn’t as described or who had a problem at all for that matter.
All the others. Let me repeat, ALL THE OTHERS were buyer who opened the case because, as they told me, “They weren’t sure how else to email the seller to ask a question.”
So if this is going to count toward my freaking DSRs, are you going to make it clearer what the process is for? Better yet, is there going to be a way for buyer and seller to amicably close the case if it was started under newbie confusion?
So then I check out the FAQ on this:
Are cases decided in the seller’s favor counted toward the requirement? What about a case I resolve promptly with the buyer as soon as I know it’s been opened?
The count of opened cases is determined before resolution and therefore may include some cases ultimately decided in the seller’s favor, and/or cases where you promptly settle with the buyer. For this reason the opened cases requirement allows for more instances before consequences are enforced. These cases are NOT included in the count of seller unresolved cases, which is why this requirement is more strict—fewer instances are allowed before consequences such as loss of eBay Top-rated or PowerSeller status or demotion in search results are enforced.Why is eBay even including a count of all cases, including those ultimately found in the seller’s favor, or cases I resolve promptly with my customer?
Sellers are always expected to follow best practices that result in smooth transactions and high buyer satisfaction. Likewise, buyers are always encouraged to contact sellers first with any issues. For the vast majority of transactions, this direct buyer-seller communication works just the way it should. When a buyer is motivated to open a case with eBay or PayPal this is a clear sign of dissatisfaction. A high rate of opened cases is an indication that some aspect of a seller’s service requires attention—regardless of the outcome of the case.
So if my newbie buyer opens a case because they couldn’t figure out how to email me, too bad, it counts against me. If buyer simply misread the description (the sort of transaction that would be like Buyer says “X” I point out “Y” and then say, Oh duh, nevermind) this now counts against me.
You know, I am the first to defend some of the asinine changes eBay makes because I believe that the buyer is basically good. But I also believe that the average person is basically dumb and won’t read things. I don’t see this as a malicious thing, just people don’t read things before they click. But counting claims filed against you regardless of their outcome AND regardless of if they were started in error or even fraudulently is utterly ridiculous. Give me a fighting chance here!
You’re now putting me and my business at the mercy of YOUR site verbiage, do you realize that? How effectively I can sell is now totally dependent on how clear your stupid My eBay section reads to newbies. Because if your words are unclear and someone starts a claim by mistake, I get penalized even if it has nothing the hell to do with me or how my business is run.
I can’t even see how your warped logic is spinning this. If I’m a good seller, my buyers will never get confused? Good sellers only sell to customer who understand everything perfectly? WTH?
And you know what, yes, right now this change doesn’t effect me worth a damn. I am still in Top Rated compliance and everything is happy there. I haven’t seen a claim in a long while. But the unfairness of this change and the danger of it when its a big newbie season like Christmas scares the hell out of me. More importantly, this change is putting the burden on the seller for your own damn verbiage. Its the equivalent of billing us sellers for your server downtime.
So now, in addition to begging my buyers to ignore your ridiculous star system, I have to beg them not to get confused and start a claim by mistake? To the average buyer, us sellers must seem like conspiracy theorists.
I’m too annoyed to be coherent right now.
UPDATE: Sorry, I know I just posted this but I had to update this rant. From ColderICE’s reaction to this same update:
Also new to the fray and starting in June will be anonymous email which will keep all buyer emails hidden, but will also remove the need for the “yellow button” that I personally hate. Every user account on eBay will be assigned an anonymous email address which will be used during email conversations with other eBay users. When you receive an email from another eBay user, you simply click on the “reply” button in your email client (such as Yahoo or Gmail) to respond. When you click the “reply” button, the anonymous email address will be put in the “to” address field. Your message will be sent to the recipient’s actual email address and their My Messages account via the anonymous email address.
So, you know, at the same time that they are raising the stakes for sellers where if a buyer mistakenly uses the Buyer Protection process just as a way to email the seller, then made it HARDER FOR BUYERS AND SELLERS TO CONTACT EACH OTHER!!!
I just have no words.
Here’s the rest of the update (I left in the personalized bits):
Summer seller update: More efficient listing, new seller standard, and more
As a valued seller, you play a key role in keeping eBay a thriving marketplace. We’re making updates this summer and fall to help increase your profitability by helping you sell more efficiently and increase buyer satisfaction. As promised, we’re continuing to consolidate changes that impact you into two or three releases per year with lead time to adapt. This is the second release for 2010.
More detailed values for item condition
Clarity around item condition goes a long way to reducing buyer questions, low DSRs, and Buyer Protection cases. To make it easier to clearly specify condition, a more descriptive set of values is being introduced in many categories.
What this means for you: Specifying one of the new item conditions will be required in some categories in new listings, revised listings, and sell similar starting July 27, 2010, and in Good ‘Til Cancelled renewals in 2011. Find out when the new condition values will be available in your categories and whether or not they will be required.
New seller standard: Buyer Protection cases counted along with low DSRs. You’re on the right track!
Opening a case with the eBay or PayPal Buyer Protection program is a clear indication of buyer dissatisfaction, especially when the buyer tries and is unable to resolve an issue directly with the seller. That’s why, starting in September, “item not received” and “item not as described” cases will be considered along with low DSRs to evaluate and reward seller performance.
The good news for you: Congratulations! You’re right on track to meet this requirement. You can monitor your status toward this new requirement–and track any cases–on your Seller Dashboard.
Faster ways to edit listings
To help you stay on top in an increasingly dynamic marketplace, we’re introducing new functionality and tools to make it faster and easier to edit, list, and relist multiple items–up to 5,000 listings at once–plus bulk edit multi-variation listings and listings in eBay Motors Parts & Accessories with parts compatibility information.
Other updates include:
- Changes to Payment and Leave Feedback email reminders
- Anonymous email addresses to keep member-to-member communications secure. If you have your own customer relationship management system to manage contacts with your customers, we suggest you run a test in advance of the new member-to-member communication enhancements. Find out how.
- New rewards for sharing your pictures to enhance the eBay catalog
- Featured First discontinued to surface the most relevant listings from sellers offering the best value and service
- Category and Item Specific changes included with other updates
- Get details on all the 2010 summer seller updates. For more insight, you’re also invited to:
- Take part in the upcoming webinar on Thursday, April 29
- Join me and other leaders from eBay and PayPal in a Town Hall meeting on Wednesday, April 28. Check the Announcement Board for more details coming soon
- Talk with members of my staff during the next two days on a special discussion board we’ve set up for this purpose.
- As always, thank you for partnering to make eBay a thriving, successful marketplace.
Sincerely,
Dinesh Lathi
Vice President
Seller and Buyer Experience
RSS - Posts
Hi Hillary,
Sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the changes that were announced today. Whenever changes are announced to the Marketplace there seem to be four possible reactions to the news: relief/happiness, anger, disappointment, or indifference (or a combo of all four). This one is no exception.
I do know that the changes – like all the recent announcements over the past year+ – are designed to help increase profitability for sellers by rewarding those who provide great service. I understand your point about new sellers who may open an unwarranted claim and we highly recommend buyers contact the seller directly whenever there are problems. However, at times a buyer may be uncomfortable reaching out to the seller in some situations so by requiring sellers to minimize opened cases, we are encouraging them to focus on best practices for smooth transactions.
I was able to sit down with Dinesh Lathi, VP of Seller & Buyer Experience, to talk about it. We also talked about the Featured First elimination and the changes to Item Condition – http://bit.ly/dzyn96
One quick point of clarification; you say: “counting claims filed against you regardless of their outcome AND regardless of if they were started in error or even fraudulently is utterly ridiculous.” Agreed and fraudulent claims will NOT be counted against you and will be dropped.
Cheers,
RBH
@eBayInkBlog
Richard,
I appreciate your stopping by to comment and I know that you have about as much control over releases like this as we do so understand that I am not in any way angry at you. But you know that I may complain at first on some new eBay changes but I am usually one of the lone voices in the wind supporting eBay changes lately and when you've even managed to tick off someone like me, that should be a wake-up call to eBay.
In the end, no, this will probably never effect me. I'll add another package insert and try to stay one step ahead of eBay verbiage just like I have been doing with all the other changes. It makes more work but I understand that extra work like this is the “fee” for sticking with eBay and I have comes to terms with it. But even eBay has to realize that this Buyer Protection nonsense is categorically unfair.
I can almost see eBay's logic. They feel that if a seller is perfect then their buyers would never file a claim. Which would be fine were it not that, history has shown, that most claims are filed for totally unrelated reasons than being unhappy with the sale. Because of the wording of the claims process, most people just think it’s a contact form. Yes, that is the fault of eBay verbiage and people not reading things properly. But penalizing sellers for that frequent misunderstanding with no way to work to withdraw it or get it removed is simply unfair.
If eBay had decided to only count claims that were not resolved to the buyer's satisfaction against a seller's account I would have no problem with that whatsoever. I would be more than happy to agree that a change like that is a good thing for buyer and seller alike. Because that would still be within my realm of control as a seller. If a buyer files a claim by mistake or even for a legitimate reason, it gives me a chance to make it right. You would think that the ability to fix issues for a customer would be a better indicator of whether I am a good seller or not.
But with this system, it helps no one. I have no motivation to help a buyer who files a claim because they have already cost me. Instead of starting that transaction out with a desire to make the situation right, I'm now starting out angry because this person has, before I can do anything about it, already dinged me. All it does it makes the claim process uglier from the start. If eBay really wanted to improve the buyer claim process, they would not have done this. Instead of the way it works currently, where I am going to bend over backwards for someone because I am courting their feedback and return business, a person who files a claim after this goes into effect has already hurt me and my business and I'm that much less willing to help them. I'm probably going to block them as a buyer anyway so I don't care about repeat business there.
As much as DSRs burn some people, they made customer service better on the site. I, as a seller, will bend over backwards to accommodate a buyer because I want their feedback. But now, someone files a claim and I just block them. Yeah, I may fight the issue to make sure I don't lose my money but that is exactly it. That transaction now starts out as a fight with the seller already angry that they got dinged instead of the seller approaching it with the “How can I make you happy” attitude of before. eBay has just made buyer/seller relations that much angrier. How is that going to help in any way?
I am glad that eBay plans to remove false claims but I would feel better about that if eBay didn't have a terrible track record of siding with the buyer no matter how wrong they are in many cases. Ebay's philosophy tends more towards, the customer is never false, er, I mean wrong. Their definition of false is typically inclusive of only a small subsection of cases that would be considered false by normal common sense. In the end, all this is saying is that sellers will have to take up more time fighting something new with eBay. I have better things to do than fight false feedback and now false claims. Of course, I will jump through that hoop and take the time to do it because I don't want to get banned but basically saying, “We've found a new way to measure you, which will be abused but we will give you the chance to spend hours fighting it if it does get abused and we may or may not even find in your favor after all that anyway!” doesn't make me feel better about this one bit. It's one of those things that probably sounds great on paper in a meeting but in the real eBay world, is an empty promise.
I do appreciate your stopping by to address these concerns and I am sure that you are getting an earful. I know that this will probably be like many other eBay changes that us seller will find a way to work around and when we finally get the hang of it, they'll change it out from under us again. But if you have anyone's ear at all about this, my one request would be that, if they cannot change this to only count buyer cases that are not resolved to the buyer's satisfaction, to at least really work on the site verbiage. If they could at least cut down on the accidentally filed claims, at least some of my rage would be tempered.
For anyone who found this using search, please do be active and CALL EBAY to have them “try” and remove any “Opened Cases” case. Mostly you will fail (as I have) but they will take consideration of the fact buyers are NOT contacting the seller before opening a case.
I’ve even had a buyer apologize to me for opening a case and never thought about using the “message the seller” link. It was just a simple misunderstanding and I have all message records in eBay. But eBay still refuse to remove it.
HOWEVER, if enough people call regarding buyers LYING that they “tried to contact the seller” that they have to check before opening a case, they MAY reconsider this policy or change it to make it more fair. Like force the buyer to message us before they have the ability to open a case. Or if they open a case without contacting us first, then the case won’t count.
It’s a long shot but if enough people call and waste enough of their money (call is toll free and paid for by eBay) because of this, it just may work.
So if you received a opened case and the buyer didn’t contact you, call eBay and complain! Waste their resources; keep their phone lines busy; keep the person on the phone for as long as possible! If enough people call, I’m sure they’ll change this very unfair policy.
I mean honestly, I’d rather receive a negative feedback then an open case since I can have the buyer revise a feedback. With an open case, I can’t do jack! Buyers do not realize how devastating an open case is to a seller. A lot of the time, they use it simply as a communications tool.
So make calls! CALL CALL CALL!
Here’s eBay’s number: 866-495-3229
Richard,rnrnI appreciate your stopping by to comment and I know that you have about as much control over releases like this as we do so understand that I am not in any way angry at you. But you know that I may complain at first on some new eBay changes but I am usually one of the lone voices in the wind supporting eBay changes lately and when you’ve even managed to tick off someone like me, that should be a wake-up call to eBay. rnrnIn the end, no, this will probably never effect me. I’ll add another package insert and try to stay one step ahead of eBay verbiage just like I have been doing with all the other changes. It makes more work but I understand that extra work like this is the “fee” for sticking with eBay and I have comes to terms with it. But even eBay has to realize that this Buyer Protection nonsense is categorically unfair. rnrnI can almost see eBay’s logic. They feel that if a seller is perfect then their buyers would never file a claim. Which would be fine were it not that, history has shown, that most claims are filed for totally unrelated reasons than being unhappy with the sale. Because of the wording of the claims process, most people just think itu2019s a contact form. Yes, that is the fault of eBay verbiage and people not reading things properly. But penalizing sellers for that frequent misunderstanding with no way to work to withdraw it or get it removed is simply unfair. rnrnIf eBay had decided to only count claims that were not resolved to the buyer’s satisfaction against a seller’s account I would have no problem with that whatsoever. I would be more than happy to agree that a change like that is a good thing for buyer and seller alike. Because that would still be within my realm of control as a seller. If a buyer files a claim by mistake or even for a legitimate reason, it gives me a chance to make it right. You would think that the ability to fix issues for a customer would be a better indicator of whether I am a good seller or not. rnrnBut with this system, it helps no one. I have no motivation to help a buyer who files a claim because they have already cost me. Instead of starting that transaction out with a desire to make the situation right, I’m now starting out angry because this person has, before I can do anything about it, already dinged me. All it does it makes the claim process uglier from the start. If eBay really wanted to improve the buyer claim process, they would not have done this. Instead of the way it works currently, where I am going to bend over backwards for someone because I am courting their feedback and return business, a person who files a claim after this goes into effect has already hurt me and my business and I’m that much less willing to help them. I’m probably going to block them as a buyer anyway so I don’t care about repeat business there. rnrnAs much as DSRs burn some people, they made customer service better on the site. I, as a seller, will bend over backwards to accommodate a buyer because I want their feedback. But now, someone files a claim and I just block them. Yeah, I may fight the issue to make sure I don’t lose my money but that is exactly it. That transaction now starts out as a fight with the seller already angry that they got dinged instead of the seller approaching it with the “How can I make you happy” attitude of before. eBay has just made buyer/seller relations that much angrier. How is that going to help in any way?rnrnI am glad that eBay plans to remove false claims but I would feel better about that if eBay didn’t have a terrible track record of siding with the buyer no matter how wrong they are in many cases. Ebay’s philosophy tends more towards, the customer is never false, er, I mean wrong. Their definition of false is typically inclusive of only a small subsection of cases that would be considered false by normal common sense. In the end, all this is saying is that sellers will have to take up more time fighting something new with eBay. I have better things to do than fight false feedback and now false claims. Of course, I will jump through that hoop and take the time to do it because I don’t want to get banned but basically saying, “We’ve found a new way to measure you, which will be abused but we will give you the chance to spend hours fighting it if it does get abused and we may or may not even find in your favor after all that anyway!” doesn’t make me feel better about this one bit. It’s one of those things that probably sounds great on paper in a meeting but in the real eBay world, is an empty promise. rnrnI do appreciate your stopping by to address these concerns and I am sure that you are getting an earful. I know that this will probably be like many other eBay changes that us seller will find a way to work around and when we finally get the hang of it, they’ll change it out from under us again. But if you have anyone’s ear at all about this, my one request would be that, if they cannot change this to only count buyer cases that are not resolved to the buyer’s satisfaction, to at least really work on the site verbiage. If they could at least cut down on the accidentally filed claims, at least some of my rage would be tempered.
Richard,rnrnI appreciate your stopping by to comment and I know that you have about as much control over releases like this as we do so understand that I am not in any way angry at you. But you know that I may complain at first on some new eBay changes but I am usually one of the lone voices in the wind supporting eBay changes lately and when you’ve even managed to tick off someone like me, that should be a wake-up call to eBay. rnrnIn the end, no, this will probably never effect me. I’ll add another package insert and try to stay one step ahead of eBay verbiage just like I have been doing with all the other changes. It makes more work but I understand that extra work like this is the “fee” for sticking with eBay and I have comes to terms with it. But even eBay has to realize that this Buyer Protection nonsense is categorically unfair. rnrnI can almost see eBay’s logic. They feel that if a seller is perfect then their buyers would never file a claim. Which would be fine were it not that, history has shown, that most claims are filed for totally unrelated reasons than being unhappy with the sale. Because of the wording of the claims process, most people just think itu2019s a contact form. Yes, that is the fault of eBay verbiage and people not reading things properly. But penalizing sellers for that frequent misunderstanding with no way to work to withdraw it or get it removed is simply unfair. rnrnIf eBay had decided to only count claims that were not resolved to the buyer’s satisfaction against a seller’s account I would have no problem with that whatsoever. I would be more than happy to agree that a change like that is a good thing for buyer and seller alike. Because that would still be within my realm of control as a seller. If a buyer files a claim by mistake or even for a legitimate reason, it gives me a chance to make it right. You would think that the ability to fix issues for a customer would be a better indicator of whether I am a good seller or not. rnrnBut with this system, it helps no one. I have no motivation to help a buyer who files a claim because they have already cost me. Instead of starting that transaction out with a desire to make the situation right, I’m now starting out angry because this person has, before I can do anything about it, already dinged me. All it does it makes the claim process uglier from the start. If eBay really wanted to improve the buyer claim process, they would not have done this. Instead of the way it works currently, where I am going to bend over backwards for someone because I am courting their feedback and return business, a person who files a claim after this goes into effect has already hurt me and my business and I’m that much less willing to help them. I’m probably going to block them as a buyer anyway so I don’t care about repeat business there. rnrnAs much as DSRs burn some people, they made customer service better on the site. I, as a seller, will bend over backwards to accommodate a buyer because I want their feedback. But now, someone files a claim and I just block them. Yeah, I may fight the issue to make sure I don’t lose my money but that is exactly it. That transaction now starts out as a fight with the seller already angry that they got dinged instead of the seller approaching it with the “How can I make you happy” attitude of before. eBay has just made buyer/seller relations that much angrier. How is that going to help in any way?rnrnI am glad that eBay plans to remove false claims but I would feel better about that if eBay didn’t have a terrible track record of siding with the buyer no matter how wrong they are in many cases. Ebay’s philosophy tends more towards, the customer is never false, er, I mean wrong. Their definition of false is typically inclusive of only a small subsection of cases that would be considered false by normal common sense. In the end, all this is saying is that sellers will have to take up more time fighting something new with eBay. I have better things to do than fight false feedback and now false claims. Of course, I will jump through that hoop and take the time to do it because I don’t want to get banned but basically saying, “We’ve found a new way to measure you, which will be abused but we will give you the chance to spend hours fighting it if it does get abused and we may or may not even find in your favor after all that anyway!” doesn’t make me feel better about this one bit. It’s one of those things that probably sounds great on paper in a meeting but in the real eBay world, is an empty promise. rnrnI do appreciate your stopping by to address these concerns and I am sure that you are getting an earful. I know that this will probably be like many other eBay changes that us seller will find a way to work around and when we finally get the hang of it, they’ll change it out from under us again. But if you have anyone’s ear at all about this, my one request would be that, if they cannot change this to only count buyer cases that are not resolved to the buyer’s satisfaction, to at least really work on the site verbiage. If they could at least cut down on the accidentally filed claims, at least some of my rage would be tempered.
Hello Hillary, I have been selling on Ebay for about 4 years now and given them thousands of dollars in fees. Now they are instituting this new DSR policy which is total BS.
Yes, they said that the new policy goes into effect in September (actually I think it went into effect in October) but what they didn’t say is that they will count cases that started from October 1st of LAST YEAR. Not from this point forward, but actually dredging up old buyer protection cases (legitimate or not) and counting them!!!!!! It is a total nightmare.
Recently I had a very confused and hasty buyer who obviously had trouble reading and writing. And what do you know, he opened up 3 buyer protection cases and now my discount and top-rated seller discount are at risk. ALL BECAUSE THIS MORON DIDN’T KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING!!!! I have chatted and talked to Ebay support for hours trying to get these uncounted but they are of no help. They lie saying they will have the cases reviewed and get back to me (never happened) and one chat representative just decided to close the chat on me when she realized I was challenging their dumb policy. One person on the phone said that there would be an appeals process to have them removed available in October, but I don’t see it yet and I’m starting to suspect BS.
If I have any success getting these counts removed, I will share here how I did it. I don’t have much hope though as I know Ebay’s real plan is to screw the sellers so that they can keep the fees. Why give them a 20% discount when they have no other auction site alternative? Oh man I’m steamed.
Just got suspended for ever because I’m over the 1%! Ebay has made it very hard for a seller to make it on ebay! I’m sure ebay has over 1% in complaints against it’s company…. I send alot of things parcel post, because of the bulk weight. Buyers have been made to believe that their item will arrive within a few days. Most of my buyers close their case within a few days of opening because the item arrives! TWO BUYERS really messed me over by leaving bad feedback and opening cases, and each item they bought they opened case for which counts against me. Neither contacted me and were newer buyers!
It is unbelievable that some people here can’t see eBay for their greed and UNFAIR policies and corrupt PooPal is the sidekick. 90% of eBay sellers HATE eBay but they have no choice but to use it for their daily bread. If Google or Microsoft etc. bought out an alternative then eBay and PooPal will sink quicker than the Titanic!
It got even “better” if the buyer contacts you with the problem and chooses the item not as described box in their message, the case is opened AUTOMATICALLY !!!